[html4all] Object element support

[Leif Halvard Silli]

Jason White 2008-08-19 13.00:

> Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:35:33PM +0200, Leif Halvard Silli:
> 
>> The most obvious problem with OBJECT is not technical. It is
>>  semantical. For instance: Does OBJECT have a method for
>> offering both a long and a short text equivalent?
> 
> The distinction between "long" and "short" text alternatives is
> really an artifact of the poor design of the HTML IMG element.
> In XHTML 2.0, for instance, we have: <p src="image">Paragraph
> serving as an alternative.</p>

That might be. But if so, then it seems to that it is a bug which 
has turned out to become a feature.

> Of course, if the author so desires, the alternative can
> include a link referring to additional information. This is
> true of OBJECT as well:
> 
> <object data="image"><p>An image. <a
> href="description.html">See this description for full
> details.</a></object>


That to me is not different from

	<p><img src=src alt="" />
	Short.
         <a href=longDescription >Long.
	</a></p>

 

(But then, why would be need @longdesc?)

> Some might argue that this isn't sufficient, since the user
> agent can't tell that the link refers to a textual alternative,
> and therefore cannot handle it specially. Whether this is a


It at least doesn't qualify as augmentative authoring!

> problem or not is debatable; I am not arguing the matter either
> way in this post. However, assuming that this is considered a 
> problem worth addressing, I can think of several alternative
> solutions:
> 
> a. To define the semantics of @title on OBJECT as serving the
> purpose of providing a short alternative.

Why would that be better than adding @longdesc to OBJECT?

> b. To use a suitable Aria role on the anchor (<a>) element, or
> to define a value of @role for this purpose in HTML. This
> assumes that @role finds its way into HTML, of course.

Does Aria offer differenciation between short and long description?

> c. To define <a rel="alternative"> so that the link can be
> identified as a long alternative to the object.


For use inside Object? Like this:

	<object image=data>Short.
	<a href=long rel=alternative>Link
	</a></object>

 

Then you are also saying that the first fallback is naturally short.

However, what about this:

	<object image=data>Short.
	<a href=#long rel=alternative>Link
	<object id=long>Long.
	</a></object>

  Do you say that the presence of that link should be what makes 
Internet Explorer "open up" the next Object?

> Doubtless there are other options. The fundamental question,
> though, is how important an issue this really is, and whether
> it is sufficiently significant to be defined in the spec, or
> whether it would be unlikely to be used by accessible user
> agents even if a mechanism were available.

By "this" I suppose you mean "being able to offer a short and a 
long description". As Gregory has said: Sometimes you need a short 
glimpse, other times you want to go into detail. I think this 
without doubt is needed.

Do you not agree that if one provides a short and a long 
description, then one should be able to author/read which is short 
and which is long? A boolean @longesc would say "the first is 
short".
-- 
leif halvard silli