[html4all] Object element support

[Robert J Burns]

Hi Leif,

On Aug 22, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:

> Robert J Burns 2008-08-21 11.11:
>
>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>
>
>>>>>    <object data=one-movie.mov >
>>>>>   <!-- all this is fallback for 'one movie': -->
>>>>>    <img src=src alt='Fallback for IMG, as part of
>>>>>       fallback for one-movie.' >
>>>>>    <object  data=another-movie.mov >
>>>>>   Fallback for 'another movie', which again is
>>>>>       fallback for one-movie.
>>>>>       <!-- end of fallback for 'one movie' -->
>>>>>    </p></object></object>
>
>
>>> So you don't hink a validator should OK this?
>>
>> No, I think the validator should throw an error for the IMG element.
>> However, I'm saying everything is covered in terms of UA conformance.
>> That is even though a document is in error following your example,  
>> the
>> UA could still produce intelligible output for the user (I'm only
>> saying in error for HTML5, though I think the prose of HTML4 also
>> imply this is an error). It could be make to work, but I think it  
>> adds
>> needless complications to permit it in document conformance.
>
>
> So, if I want to offer some flash to those that enjoy flash, but a
> nice mark-up with some images as fallback for the other readers,
> then this would not be good enough, you say. Because then the
> screen readers would get some IMG elements.
>
> I can't agree to this. I think the fallback must be judged
> independently from very OBJECT element.

That is a use case I had not considered (multi media like flash  
falling back to multi media HTML). I agree it should be permitted.  
However, then I'm left wondering what you meant by your original  
OBJECT element objections. It seems your example should be both  
document conforming and is also handled properly even in HTML4.01.

If we make longdesc available on OBJECT (or even make it a global  
attribute), then OBJECT has everything needed to replace IMG (at least  
in present and future browsers with IE8). The contents of the OBJECT  
element contain the alt text for the embedded media and other  
description can be referenced by the longdesc attribute (or contained  
in the embedded media internally as I've suggested elsewhere)[1].i

Take care,
Rob

[1]: <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/UANormAndDOMForMediaPropeties>