Talk:List Guidelines

From html4all

GJR Question 1: where should the "Moderation Policy" section be placed? what text should be preserved under "Be Polite and Show Respect" and which moved to "Moderation Policy"?

Zara : Hi, may I suggest something along these lines ? Please excuse any formatting errors, I am mildly wiki-illiterate. And please feel free to correct any compositional errors, English is my second language.

I also respectfully wonder if one warning before unsubscribing someone is sufficient as these things can sometimes be considered subjective. Maybe we could put the number at 2 before resorting to unsubscription ? Please feel free to disagree.

Zara (edit): I do not know why some of the text under the "Introduction" heading was put into a dotted box, that was not my intent. It does that when you indent the text - removing the leading spaces fixes it. 80.177.163.133 19:17, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

GJR: Zara i think your mock-up below is ready to be voted upon... i made the following few small tweaks:

1. i agree that "one and you're done" is too draconian; so, i outlined a 3 strikes and you're out policy in the text of your mock-up
2. once the page is finalized and -- i suppose, made immutable -- it will be possible to replace all internal pointers ("for more information" and "as described in") can be changed to internal hyperlinks with stable ID anchors
3. i considered adding to the re-admitted on probationary status text verbiage to the effect that a user may, at the discretion of the listowners, be re-admitted on a probationary status, not to exceed three (3) months, during which the re-subscribed listmember's posts will be subject to list moderator approval, but didn't want to place any undue burdens on the listowners, being a multiple listowner myself...

as for the indented text on some wikis that will force a presentational blockquote, the use of which was deprecated in HTML 4.01 anyway -- on this wiki it produces monospaced boxed areas that i have used on other MediaWikis to indicate sample text, breaking at line 65 -- try inserting straight HTML; while full HTML support isn't turned on, the wiki will accept straight markup (for example, CITE; i haven't tried Q) [comments left at 06:39 UTC 2007/09/12]

Laura: I have a suggestion to:

1. remove the "Moderation Policy" section for now (but hold it in reserve in case we need to add it in the future...maybe put it as a draft on a separate wiki page.)
2. incorporate Phil's verbage in the "Be Polite and Show Respect" section something like:

html4all is characterized by tolerance and mutual respect. It is intended to foster constructive dialogue and increase networking in an open arena, free from personal attacks. We therefore encourage all members to engage in discussions based on openness, honesty, collaboration, and consideration of others. We

• debate; we don't argue
• listen; we don't shout
• respect the right of others to disagree

We are happy if others want to join, and the only thing we ask of them is that they accept this ethos. If they do, and they are happy to work within it, then long may they remain a member; but if they choose instead to ignore it, and to behave in such a way as to cause offence, then they will be asked to leave. And if they refuse, they will be removed.

Zara: Hi Laura, I like your proposal. I think Phil's text really helps to set the tone of collaboration while still making it clear that unconstructive or hindering activity would not be accepted.

Personally, I would however keep the 2 other guidelines, I think that they are practical tools for people to understand how to contribute in a way that is useful for the list.

As for a Moderation Policy, I believe it is important to have one, especially in light of the last part of Phil's text. When anyone joins any kind of list, it is important to know what the consequences are if something goes wrong and what the procedure is. It also helps to remove burden on the list administrator or moderator and ensures that everyone understand that things are done without prejudice and according to a clear policy. I understand that some may prefer to not have one at this time but I think that it would be considered normal for those who started any given group to set up the necessary tools for future participants with the understanding that nothing is set in stone and that there is always a possibility to revise it if some feel it necessary.

I will of course rally to the majority and would certainly not object with it being set up as a draft document to work on in the coming weeks with input from all, including new members.

And thank you Gregory for explaining the wiki stuff.

GJR Zara any questions about the wiki that i can answer i will -- there is a pretty good internal help provided by wikimedia, but perhaps a TipsAndTricks page where collective wisdom can be contained wouldn't be a bad idea -- and lead to more consistency in the markup used on the wiki...

Laura i agree with Zara -- although i do like the terseness of what you've outlined, it is essential that we set some ground rules, rather than imposing them on-the-fly -- even if they already existed in a different document... it is important to let people know up front that the principles outlined by phil are backed by a policy; every consensus-building organization needs at least a few ground rules, which is why i have been branded as a syndicalist more than once in the past -- rules only when needed, applied only when necessary... hopefully, the attitude with which html4all conducts its business will provide the best example, but i've also learned that a community can break if there aren't some ground rules that promote harmonious co-existence, and part of those ground rules must be backed by a clearly enunciated impartial policy which applies to all -- founders and newcomers alike... [comment left at 15:00 UTC 2007/09/12]

Laura: Sounds good. Thanks! So here's what I did to try to accommodate suggestions.

• Incorporated Phil's text.
• Created a list moderation policy page at: http://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/List_Moderation_Policy where you can work on the text.
• Linked guidelines to the moderation policy page.

Your Thoughts?

Zara: Hi Laura, great work, thank you for fixing all that up :) And I am certainly willing to contribute to the Moderation Policy draft, I think we have a good base to start with.

Two remarks:

Is there a reason why the introductory paragraph is called "Draft" ?

And I would suggest the following minor changes to the paragraph under the heading "Discussion List Guidelines" since some seemed to have a problem with the word "rules" (that I remplaced with the words "information" and "guidelines"). See following paragraph for your input:

Since html4all is a dialog, rather than a general discussion or chat list, potential subscribers are asked to review the following information carefully before subscribing. Note that, by confirming your subscription request, you are agreeing to abide by the following guidelines:

Laura: Hi, Zara. Thanks for catching that. I replaced that text with yours.

The idea with the "draft" heading is to indicate current status. I intended to delete "Draft" from the drafts after we vote on them and they pass. Does that sound ok? Or is there a better way to indicate current status?

Zara: Hi again, no, that is fine, I just wanted to make sure I understood. Thank you :)

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Contents 1 Introduction 2 Discussion List Guidelines 2.1 Be Polite and Show Respect 2.2 Be On-Topic 2.3 Cite Briefly 3 Moderation Policy

Introduction

html4all is a open and open-minded conduit through which people can express ideas regarding the next generation of HTML. Our

• Mission Statement describes core group values which guide geographically scattered group members to work independently and yet collectively toward goals.
• Goals describe what we aim to accomplish.

Discussion List Guidelines

Since html4all is a dialogue, rather than a general discussion or chat list, potential subscribers are asked to review the following information carefully before subscribing. Note that, by confirming your subscription request, you are agreeing to abide by the following guidelines:

Be Polite and Show Respect

html4all is intended to foster constructive dialogue and increase networking in an open arena, free from personal attacks. We therefore encourage all members to engage in discussions based on openness, honesty, collaboration, and mutual respect. For more information, please see our Moderation Policy below.

Be On-Topic

Subject lines should be brief and precise. Because html4all is a multi-purpose list, it is essential that the subject line accurately reflect the contents of the message's body, if the list is to function effectively. Please exercise care in this regard when responding to messages. If you change the topic, please also change the subject line.

Cite Briefly

Please avoid overquoting previous posts -- often, a brief summation of a previous post or the thread to which you are contributing is sufficient. Those who object to another list member's overquoting should send their complaints directly to the poster, and Cc them to the listowners, using the following eddress: html4all-request_at_html4all.org

Moderation Policy

Complaints about and criticism of other list members and/or the organizations to which they belong should be handled off-list via private email. If any subscriber feels that he or she is being unfairly accosted or undermined by another subscriber, the matter should be referred to html4all-request_at_html4all.org so that an attempt at mediation can be made.

If a subscriber consistently and/or flagrantly disregards the cornerstones of html4all -- openness, honesty, collaboration, and mutual respect -- that subscriber will be warned once, by the list owners, that he or she is in violation of list policy. Once a subscriber has been so warned, if that subscriber again indulges in the offensive behavior, the subscriber will be placed on probationary status; a third occurance of the behavior about which the subscriber has been contacted by the listowners will result in the removal of that subscriber from the list. Anyone so suspended will be able to re-apply for re-instatement to the list's subscriptions rolls for three (3) months.

Depending upon the nature and flagrancy of the policy violation, those who resubscribe to the list after having been unsubscribed by the listowner, may be subject to a probationary period, during which that subscriber's posts must first be approved for distribution via html4all by the list's moderators.